Voters had few questions about proposed town and school budgets, but more questions were about a new parking lot at Union Street School at Springfield town meeting Monday night.
http://www.rutlandherald.com/article/20130305/NEWS02/703059829
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Springfield residents question school parking lot
By Susan Smallheer
Staff Writer | March 05,2013
It was a nostaglic, short-sided decision when a majority of the townsfolks choice to renovate Elm and Union instead of build a modern, spacious, efficient brand-new school. The state funding was more generous for a new building and there wouldn't still be fighting the traffic and parking woes at Elm and Union. The town chose poorly and must live with consequences.
ReplyDeleteagreed, but that doesn't change the fact there is a drug den in front of an elementary school.
ReplyDeleteThey need to get rid of that building, and then the Town needs to get off its duff and condemn the building across the street. The school is leading the way in trying to clean up the environment around the Union Street School, and the Town needs to get off their posterior and do something about the building across the street.
DeleteAmen to that!
DeleteFirst off, most of Springfield is a bad part of town. They like to think it is isolated on Union Street because it looks run down and it is easy to think "not near me, never". Many of those homes are NOT and are either victims to bad landlords upkeep or poverty and that is mostly on one part of the damn road. Take a look at your neighbors in the hills, it is up there too sweeties. Dense.
ReplyDeleteSecond, they complain about parking, they complain about traffic, they complain about how funds are spent once the budget passes. But when a resolution to at least one part, albeit a tiny one, comes to light they complain about that. The area is depressed enough, let's not add to it by being negative about every freaking thing.
Third, if they want to borrow another $400K to buy, tear down, and reuse the neighboring property and the hell hole across the street, I would vote yes in a split second. Someone has to come to the healm to help. Our babies are going to school and after school in hell. If we can't sell our houses to get out, we need to find a way to survive and keep our babies safe. Or we can just have people walk from their homes and stop providing tax revenues to the town and let them become a part of the decay and problem. Your choice.
So , any extra money lets spend it.
ReplyDeleteWhat a load of ####.
They are spending your money and mine , pay off the debt instead. The school board is spending our money foolishly.Next chance we get vote the bums out.
You had the chance to vote them out today. Why didn't you take advantage of it?
DeleteIdiot that wasn't about a parking lot, it was about trying to clean up Union Street. You want to have drug deals continue to go down right in front of an elementary school?
DeleteIt is not foolish. It is needed and someone has to help. It is a community issue, school, city, and police. But keep bitching instead of realizing that 200k drop is barely a penny if that off your taxes. Tearing that house down is the better decision.
DeleteIt appears the community doesn't mind having drug deals go down in front of an elementary school because they voted it down
DeleteYes, democracy led by the uneducated. Part of the problem, not the solution.
DeleteDon't worry the town government will solve this drug problem. The police chief has everything under control, don't worry about the fact that he hasn't been able to fill numerous vacancies in his department for a significant length of time in a down economy with high unemployment.
DeleteBuying one house in a town full of drug houses will not cure all of Springfield's ailments. The problem needs to be dealt with by everyone, not just the police department. If you see something, don't turn the other way, report it. They can't see everything.
DeleteAs far as the school budget being turned down the people have spoken school board...do something about it start with listening to your peers, the people of this town and the kids. Don't just rewrite it and keep people voting, hoping that we will wear down and just vote yes.
How many seats on the school board were contested this year?
DeleteThere are drug deals going on in front of Union St. School. There are drug deals going on in front of and behind Riverside School, there are drug deals going on in the parking lots of the high school. If you don't want drug deals around the schools in Springfield, your going to have to move the schools to another town.., get real people,,,removing one house to eliminate drug deals from close proximity to Union St school is a joke and a huge waste of money.
DeleteRemoving one house, would have been one step in the right direction -- it might have inspired the Town to do something about the house across the street. We aren't going to clean up the drug/gang problem overnight but that does not justify doing nothing. Its become a common joke about reporting it to the police, people have done that and gotten no results. We are seeing some results now due to the crack down on the slumlords, and hopefully when the weather warms up again the police will be prodded back into foot patrols. It would be nice if the cruisers would spend more time cruising the known places where the drug deals go down. And what town would you move to? Chester? If you haven't noticed a lot of the busted dealers come from there? Bellows Falls? Oh yeah, park on the wrong street and you get your car windows bashed in. Claremont? You got to be kidding.
DeleteI went to that school 49 years ago
ReplyDeleteThere was no parking then but we actually WALKED to school.Unheard of these days.
If the drug houses bother you get the over inflated speed checkers(police) to fix the issue.Pressure them with phone calls. Trust me you kick some butt and they(the druggies) will move if you make it uncomfortable for them to be around.
Pressuring SPD is a lost cause. They tell everyone to report what you see, but when reports are made, nothing is done. They tell you to bring situations to their attention, but when that is done, they say they "have it under control, so don't worry." Personally, I've seen very little intervention by SPD. They talk a good game, but the drug dealing and use continues. Unfortunately, it may take "street justice" before any real clean up happens. And then, it will be the citizens who try to clean up the mess that end up behind bars.
DeleteAnonymous 8:33 your opening line, pretty much explained that you are out of touch. We currently have a problem getting the police on the street where the drug deals are going down. And back then Union Street was reputedly the poor kid school, the idea now is that everybody should have a safe, clean and wholesome school environment not just the ones who happened to live in the better part of town.
DeleteFirst of all "back"then you went to the school that was closest to where you lived. Union Street school was hardly where the "poor "kids went. That was South Street school.
DeleteThe area surrounding Union Street was actually a very nice area then.
As far as being out of touch,you are sadly mistaken.
Well you morons really did it now. You did not pass a 2.6% increase for the school and did not approve the house. But you approved the town. That was a mandatory increase in medical contributing to the school increase. All schools are facing it. I am not surprised, A town full of uneducated people deciding education is not important. Idiots.
ReplyDeleteThis town is the most backwards place I have ever seen.
DeleteIs it senior citizens that keep voting the school budget down?
How can a $63,500 appropriation to the VNA pass if people are so up in arms over the tax rate?
How can you exempt a property of taxes (Springfield Players Building) if people are so sick and tired of taxes going up.
You people have absolutely no logic behind your votes. Either you are sick and tired of increased taxes so you vote down everything that will increase your taxes or we have a serious vendetta against education in this town.
Why aren't middle class families moving to Springfield? Its not the taxes folks, its the fact that we never, ever, ever support our schools.
I'm a parent of 3 and I voted no. The school needs a major detox.
DeleteI don't see how leaving the schools less able to buy books for your 3 kids constitutes a detox.
Deletepaid vacation for 1 year = lots of books
DeleteRe: buy books.
DeleteMy son, a sophomore, is using the VERY same book I used in high school. It seems to me they have reused them pretty well. So riddle me this, why does the budget keep going up, up, up and they have books from almost 20 years ago?
Parent of 3
Name calling? Really? Well us idiots and we morons in this town happen to pay for the school budget. Grow up please.
DeleteEven when the school tries...they shoot it down. We would love swift change but this town full of adhd can't keep their lack of impulse control in check long enough to press the yes button for the schools and give them a chance to change.
ReplyDeleteI'm tracking down more data for Springfield, because there are a couple of things in play here-- such as, how many residential units are there, how many are inhabited by retired people, what are the income levels for the population cohorts, and what percentage of voters are from households with minor children?
DeleteMy opinion over the years has been that when the citizens get gruntled, they pass the town budget and shoot down the school budget. It would be interesting to find out if there's a different explanation.
http://www.upworthy.com/9-out-of-10-americans-are-completely-wrong-about-this-mind-blowing-fact-2?c=upw1
Goes to show you that the percent of the intelligent people versus non has swayed to the side of the stupid. Play with the town budget not the schools. Now I need to figure out a way to move my young family out of here. They will drown here regardless of home support.
Deletebye-bye
DeleteChuck Gregory, I have noticed that the "Greatest Generation" seems to like to vote for the various programs that provide them assistance, and vote against the various programs that are trying to help their grandkids educate their gr-grandkids while all the while complaining about the rising generation. Unfortunately, if the trend continues we will have destroyed a generation.
DeleteAthelred the Unready~~ My father, who was one of the Greatest Generation, inveighed all his life against welfare recipients, including those who got SSI, but defended to the death his right to SS and Medicare. There are several factors that are in play with that generation:
Delete1. They went through the Depression and figure if they could do it and survive, everybody could. Very few of them had more than a high school education, so they did not realize that not everybody in every country "survives" that sort of experience the same way-- e.g., Germany and many South American countries.
2. Things that were put in place while they were children-- SS, the WPA, the Cabinet-level Health and Human Services programs-- they never connected with effective government. Like air and water, those programs were always there, and for all they knew (and know) would always be there.
3. Those policies, plus the Roosevelt/Truman administrations' attentiveness to fiscal and monetary policy ensured that there would not be the re-enactment of the inevitable sequel to every other war-- a depression. Even though the government debt was 120% of GDP at the end of the war, tax policy (especially war profiteering) and nearly-mandatory savings programs (War Bonds) provided not only income for the industrial workers to enter and live like the middle class, but also provided the 20-50 program for any vet who wanted it-- $20 a week for 50 weeks. So, these people who are voting against the interests of their grandchildren don't connect their own government-provided good fortune with the future welfare of their descendants.
4. A Pew Report recently disclosed that the median wealth for the elderly is $170,000. That's wealth, not income. What that means is, half the people in America most likely have no more than a house for income backup. They worked at a time when retirement was known to consist of three props-- their savings, their SS and their company retirement plan.
If you saw "Capitalism: A Love Story," you saw how many of them lost their savings. They almost lost SS through efforts to "privatize" it in the W years, and many, many company retirement plans have been looted, as Goldman Industrial Group did to the Springfield workers whose shops it obtained.
5. Which means that many of Springfield's Greatest Generation are practically living on air; they're very nervous about whether they can make it to the next SS check; they're constantly at risk for being swindled (thank you, Mary Jo White at SEC, for your inaction); and if they own a home, property taxes are almost killing them. Since it's their property taxes that keep the town running, it often boils down to a choice of meals and a roof over their head versus their grandkid's six hours a day in school. What's to consider?
We need to understand how the state tax system makes allowances for the elderly. Either they are getting nailed, or they are getting taken care of. Depending on what the situation is, we can proceed from there.
Incidentally, the Town Democrats Facebook page has launched discussions on how to make a new Springfield. Optimists only need apply:
https://www.facebook.com/SpringfieldVermontDemocrats?skip_nax_wizard=true
Idiotic. people move to towns b/c of schools, we need to support them. We will never get better if we keep moving backwards. People don;t trust moving into a town that doesnt support their schools and what youthful energetic teachers want to teach in a school that is not supported.... Think people. There should be a test in the hallway entering the school that you must pass showing your not an idiot before you help make decisions above your intellectual aptitude
ReplyDeleteLet me guess Chester, Weathersfield, Reading and Brownsville all passed their school budgets. Figures all the towns we are losing our young, middle class families to support their schools.
ReplyDeleteYea! Now the schools will listen and enact the change we want...um...what change is "no"?
ReplyDeleteI can't believe people at town meeting bemoaning lack of new business in town, and then they vote down the schools. Why would anyone move here and start a business when we can't properly fund our schools? You cannot attract young, smart families without supporting your schools. You just can't. I think it's time for the school board to get tough on this - don't rework the budget at all. Just keep putting it up for vote until it passes.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Re-arrange the paper and idiots will not notice the difference.
Deletewaaaa waaa waaa...boy the bitterness of losers is so not a good look.
DeleteThey approve social services for the elderly. Guese they do not realize you will have no one to tax to support the old if you do not support the scholls and keep familiew here. You will be a social security and welfare town. You will implode this way.
ReplyDeleteSorry, typos from the kindle. Should be "schools" and "families"
DeleteUmmm "will be a social services and welfare town"? Are you effing kidding me? Look around...it has been that for the past 50 years
DeleteYou are wrong. It is heavily headed that way, but there are a lot of young, tax paying middle class families in the area that were somehow suckered into thinking the area was in an upswing between 2005-2009 (the high housing market times) only to have it all slapped into their faces once the economy tanked.
DeleteVoting down the budget the first time is an automatic thing in Springfield. It's a surprise if it isn't. It could have been a 25% cut and it would have failed. Reload it as is and put it back up and it should go.
ReplyDeleteThank you my fellow Springfield residents for slashing the aspirations, dreams and hopes of our children! Well done.
ReplyDeleteHaha ,this makes me laugh. Over inflated teacher wages when the rest of the country takes paycuts. Also a sigle house will make no difference,If I owned that house I would just laugh because the only way to fix the problem is buy em out, Take the house by storm if they are doing /selling drugs. Stop babying the druggies . Then revamp the budget.
DeleteSorry the school district brings this on themselves. For starters lets approve a paid teacher sabbatical to the tune of $35K for a yr so she/he can write a book on the Beatles specifically around Paul McCartney wow what a great idea and I can REALLY see how this benefits the school. WASTE of money
ReplyDeleteExactly 10:12- Never mind the fact that the school was caught using an abusive "room", or the fact that they allowed civil rights of students to be violated or harassment based on sex of students or incessant bullying.
DeleteThese people love love love to cast the blame on everything and everyone that they can. The fact is this- The families and residents are sick and tired of the excuses the school employees and supporters hide behind. Never mind the fact that the average cost per student in Springfield is WAY WAY over the state average.
Face the fact you guys lost. Re-work it.. It is pretty plain to see the negative "school vote supporters" are staff. The fact clearly is that most of these people would not survive in the real world because they cannot provide results.
Are the proceeds from this book coming back into the district? The board allowing this one year paid vacation is absolutely crazy. The Beatles? Really? There has to be thousands of books on this subject already.
DeleteThe schools here are laughable. The various people in charge think they are big fish in a relatively small and uneducated pond. Then again, most of the parents in this town are poorly behaved and uneducated as well. Maybe it's just going to be a never ending cycle.
ReplyDeleteI'm taking my business and my kids and escaping from here in the Spring. This town is going nowhere fast and accelerating under the heavy foot of the wanna-be politicians who are nothing more than little fish in a tiny pond. The real world out there would eat them alive. Too bad the budget didn't pass, though, since before we leave we are filing a large gross negligence injury lawsuit against the Springfield School system. :)
Why is that?......because your kids inherited your moronic genetics as evidenced in your moronic post? Do tell.
DeleteYou're moving your business Douchy....how sad.....the dopers will miss the Magic Mushroom.
Delete10:29 EXACTLY- couldn't have said it any better myself! And that makes two of us but go ahead and move cause there is no time like the present to save your kids!
DeleteAlso why not come clean about the reason for wanting to buy the property by Union. Too many stories I.e. we need parking, we can not properly secure the building, we need it to protect the property line. It would have been easier to stick the truth and just say so we can get rid of the scum.
ReplyDeleteTHEY DID! DID YOU EVEN GO TO TOWN MEETING?
DeleteAs a matter of fact I was at the meeting were you?
DeleteWhile we are at it lets talk about the $20K that is buried in this purchase for repairs to the Park St School roof. That is right...Park St the school that was supposed to be closed. Remember that BIG pitch that is now costing us $1.2 million a year in bond payments. The budget gets voted down because taxpayers are sick and tired of being lied to.
DeleteBRAVO to 10:31
DeletePolice , take control of the situation instead of picking up speeders to line the pockets of the self serving police dept.Waste of money to buy that building and kick out the dopers,just arrest them when they cause troubles. If the regualr folks know its a drug sen then you cant tell me the cops cant fix the issue if they really wanted to,
Hey Anon 10:09, you know that the police department doesn't get any money from tickets right? Of course you do, you're one of these forum experts who know everything but like to just pretend your not very bright..sorry for questioning you.
Deleteanon at 231
Deletewrong ,a portion of the money does go back to the city or town.
I bought a house on Union in 2007 . It was close to the elementary school so my kids could walk to school. The part of Union , Nearest to the store, is ok , but going down hill. The drunk , stoned riff raff on their way to the corner store is a problem. The town has moved the little ones to Elm so more kids need transportation. This means we bought a home near a certain school for no reason . To make it worse Elm can not handle the car traffic IE for open house they had to provide a shuttle from RMS for the parents.
ReplyDeleteAll that being said ... There are HUGE improvements in the schools.Three years ago I removed my children to home school them because the schools were so bad. This year the kids wanted to face their fears and try again. Elm is wonderful . Union is fantastic Mrs. Potter deserves an award . RMS is night and day different . The SPED department 100% change. SHS has a way to go communication is poor which leads to many problems. The point is the schools deserve this money , they are getting better . What a shame this town as a whole doesn't see it.
A poster was talking about renters . I believe strongly that the issue in this town is the LANDLORDS they rent to anyone , they don't care what their tenant does . I know I lived it.
When we first moved here we rented an apartment . We ended up in a troubled building 120 Main st. The landlord lived in NY and could have cared less about the drugs , squatters and vermin . He had a local real estate company take over the management of the building when he was in the process of selling it. You couldn't walk in the main hall without getting knocked over by the smell of pot. At the time no one in town could do anything. Not Puggy ( at the time ) not Mr. Yesman who was part of the real estate company. Why? This state/town has no laws to govern how tenants act . Look at Burlington as an example of how laws are applied. You want change? Go after the landlords . No one wants to hear that the landlords need to step up to help keep the riff raff down.
Someone also posted about not being able to sell their home so they have to make the best of it. This town has no town pride everyone has a depressed attitude that Springfield just stinks and nothing can be done. This is also part of the problem . If you don't have pride in where you live no matter if its a huge home or a little trailer than you have bigger problems than you realize.
My last comments are about town government. The current town manager is a very nice man this is not about him personally. This comment is about structure. I have never lived anywhere that the town manager is appointed for life. Where is the voting process , new ideas , change , new blood ?
I think that part of this towns problem is there is a disconnect between the town government , the police and the people. Unless you have lived here forever you are shut out. I think if there was a more democratic approach to town government you would see people getting involved , new ideas , more connection and growth .
To expect change and insisting on keeping things the same way , run by the same people is the definition of insanity.
Okay, first to be said I did and do support the school budget. I am livid that it didn't pass. I do not work for the town or the school, so believe it or not and contrary to some posters, not all supporters work for the district. However, do not throw "town pride" in my face. The depressed attitude is beaten into us. I am not sure if it is because I am not from here and was raised in an area that watched drugs and violent crime move in over 20 years ago or what, but it is very hard to have pride in a town where there are house arrests criminals standing on a corner 10 feet from an after school program, a shooting not that much further up the road, drug deals (obvious ones) going on right on main street, drug dealers preying on our children as school lets out right near the municipal building and in the plaza and have an ounce of pride. People report, but not much can be done due to many backwater, outdated Vermont laws. This isn't Mayberry and the state and town needs to realize this. Also, when you go to a job interview and the person tells you that they almost didn't call just because of where you live in Springfield, it is a hard pill to swallow to have "pride". When you have young children who you are trying to raise properly and you are surrounded by parents who could give a damn or who expose their children to the unthinkable and they bring that to the schools, it is hard to have PRIDE.
DeleteTown: Even if the town position came up for election, no one is running for anything anymore. Why? So they can be beaten down by the rude, uneducated people? Salaries, if they are too high for management, lies in the fact that they deserve battle pay for what they have to go through just to do their job.
You will see more and more landlords as people move from an area where they can't even support their schools. Then you will see more bad tenants as you can't attract decent renters and they can't sell off the properties.
We have a good deal of very decent teachers. Things have been improving, I agree. However, you are battling a long history and until those people die off due to old age, you will not see the full potential of what these schools and town can do.
Frootloops 7:55.
DeletePurchasing that house is not going to clean up that street and take care of the drug issues. What about the house down from that or the one down from that? There are more drug problems on that street and many other streets in this town. I choose to use the funds where it will actually make an impact and that is what we need to figure out together.
ReplyDeletePeople who want to be creative about changing Springfield rather than just complaining about it are welcome to look over the topics offered at the Town Democrats Facebook page:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.facebook.com/SpringfieldVermontDemocrats?skip_nax_wizard=true
Optimists only need apply.
https://www.facebook.com/SpringfieldVermontDemocrats
Delete